Minutes for:

Mr. Warner: "I have a question. We made the motion that we would use this as a work session and only approve anything at the end. This would normally be considered a ‘Consent Agenda’ item. Shall we go ahead and approve minutes at this work session or shall we leave those and at this point voice any corrections or additions and let it then be approved at the last meeting? That’s kind of an open question. I don’t know what the pleasure of the rest of the council is."

Mayor: "Question on the floor is do we approve the minutes and move forward, just by approving the minutes or do we let them pile up on us and dig through them at the next meeting?"

Ms. Duggins: "I think it would be redundant for us to wait. I’d like to, of course, consider going ahead and approving minutes as they come up like this. I think the point would be – briefing session – not to take up something that we had not discussed prior to."

Mr. Warner: "I’m in agreement with you."

Mayor: "Is everyone in agreement?"

Ms. Welch: "I am."

Mr. Larrimore: "I am."

Signature Card At Central Carolina Bank (CCB)

Ms. Duggins: "There, again, I think that we should go ahead and handle this. This is important to start the year off right and get the proper signatures on this card."

Mayor: "This is something that came up as an interim move, not as a panacea for a long term but something that came about as a, actually, I don’t know - I don’t want to lay it on Ms. McKinnie but, regardless of who came up with the idea, it was thought of since the mayor’s office currently has more room to let the Planning Board use the mayor’s office and move the mayor’s office down to the smaller room, which is beside Ms. McKinnie – between the reception area and Ms. McKinnie’s office. But this is strictly a suggestion to give them some room until we can find space – just as a temporary move and this is just throwing it out as "For Discussion" as it says."

Ms. Welch: "And you’re willing to do that?"

Mayor: "Yes, ma’am. Absolutely. Absolutely. It’s not a matter of anything permanent – just be something temporary. But, yes, we’re willing to do that but it’s strictly up to…..if they’re not receptive to that, then that’s okay too."

Ms. Duggins: "May I speak to this, Mayor? We do need, at a future date, as soon as possible, to have a place where our Planning Board can have their hearing. We can’t always depend on the Library being available so we do need to make some plans forthcoming to have a place where they can have their hearings and put up their maps, and keep them up – such as that. I’m agreeable to doing this – and I think it’s a great idea for the Planning Board because they could have their meetings in there and have room enough for the public to attend, which they have to be available to that. But we do need a space for hearings and they are going to be more numerous in the future! (‘Fraid so!)"

Ms. Welch: "We hope so!"

Mr. Larrimore: "Well, I hate to pound that dog to death. I’ve got back on that table behind you in your office, a drawing laying there – I didn’t draw it for law – I drew it just to be talked and consulted with and whatnot. I still think we could use half the building for what we got right here and the other half for their place. And I invite anybody up there to look at the drawing – the existing building – it was given to us. Only expense we’ll incur is what’s required to heat and air and restrooms. They’re not bathrooms, they’re restrooms. Without a tub, they’re restrooms. So if anybody cares to look…"

Mr. Warner: "I favor we should go ahead and make that office area available to the Planning Board, since you have no objection. This will be going back to where we were in the beginning when the mayor’s office was in that little room. I believe the Town Clerk has assured me that the machines and such that are in there can be relocated, is that right?"

Lynn: "Yes. No problem."

Mr. Warner: "I favor let’s go ahead and make that space available to them reasonably soon."

Mayor: "Before we proceed too far, would ya’ll have any objections … I have talked to Ms. Leight concerning this…. But, do you have any feelings as a temporary, Peggy..do you mind if we….? I don’t mean to put you on the spot; I know you and I had talked earlier and you didn’t jump up and down either way so….."

Ms. Leight responded from the audience that basically, she had no problem temporarily but she

mentioned concerns about space for a Public Hearing with the public coming in.

Mayor: "I don’t think we ever thought about it as a public meeting because it’s larger than a normal office but it’s not big enough for that. I think the main reason would be for just your meetings. Of course we know they’re open to the public as well but I don’t think many are going to come to your work session probably, but they may. I don’t know. But do you object is what we’re saying or would you want to use that?"

Ms. Leight again agreed to the office space temporarily.

Ms. Duggins: "One suggestion would be that maybe we could take the desk out and have more seating area in that room. You know, the desk would be moved to your office and could set up a little area for the public – or another table possibly."

Mayor: "Is this an item the council would like to deal with tonight or would you like to put it on hold for two weeks?"

Mr. Larrimore: "It’s here now! The problem is now – it’s amongst us. I think we ought to proceed. So she doesn’t have to come lugging in two armloads of things – she will have a place to lay them down."

Ms. Duggins: "Another thing, too, you could let us know if there is something else you need in that room to help it be more conducive to your needs."

Mayor: "This is just a discussion item – as Mr. Conrad had addressed earlier in the public session. The one thing we had discussed, I don’t know how many people have used our website, or go on our website, but according to him, I believe he said 1200 people. We’ve got an excellent website and I would like to encourage our people to use the website and we’re trying to find out the glitches. We found a little glitch in trying to send emails to the addresses that’s on the websites. We can send an email to Toby but we are unable to send one to anyone else – I can’t send one to Ms. McKinnie or anyone else so we’re working that out. Do you all have any discussion on this?"

Ms. Welch: "Well, since I found out it was free, I think it’s a good idea!"

Mayor: "The price is right!"

Mr. Welch: "And Mr. Conrad says he’s non-partisan, so…."

Mr. Warner: "I’m glad she’s sitting close to me!"

Mayor: "The website is townofwalkertown.bravehost.com .. It’s a very good looking website. Mr. Conrad’s to be commended on the work with it. I don’t have a clue how it’s put together!!"

Ms. Duggins: "Do you have all of our email addresses? I don’t think you have mine."

Lynn: "No. I need to get them."

Mayor: "The one thing we need to do is update the website to have everybody’s email address, at least at Town Hall. I don’t know if there is one at Town Hall for everyone."

Mr. Warner: "You should ask the Town Clerk because she’s the one that supplies the information….."

Ms. Welch: "If you want to vote, I’m ready!"

Mayor: "Well, we don’t have anything to vote about, we’re just discussing if there’s any changes that need to be made on the website. Maybe we can work with Mr. Conrad and he can show us how we can better access the emails."

Mr. Conrad: "If you can’t access everybody’s email, it’s a software issue and has nothing to do with the website. If it’s a minor situation, I might be able to correct it for you."

Mayor: "Okay. If we could have it so if you go on the website and click on the email address, then it comes up. It makes it easy. Probably you would be more likely to use it. Also, the minutes will be on the website for the meeting. We’ve discussed about the timeframe and you councilmembers can help us on that. What kind of time frame? We’re talking about within a week. I don’t know what’s acceptable to everyone. Ms. McKinnie was talking about usually if she starts tomorrow depending on whether they’ll be ready by Monday to actually be put up on the website. Sometimes they’ll be ready by Thursday but at other times it may be Monday. Is that correct, Ms. McKinnie?"

Lynn: "I usually type minutes the next day after the meeting but there will be times when other things will need to take priority. And, like the meeting of the 27^th, I will be heading to clerk school in Raleigh and they won’t be ready for a while then."

Mayor: "Right. So it’s – general information for the public – the minutes from the 2^nd and 4^th meetings, we don’t have a deadline for that but possibly the council can work with Ms. McKinnie and work out a time frame on that in the coming…..so you can know what to depend on – whether they’ll be there by Monday, which will be the Monday prior to the Planning meeting. Which will give you access to the minutes from the current meeting and then if you want to comment back, you can email back. Right now you can only access Toby’s but the others such as mine or Ms. McKinnie’s – and I don’t know if the council wants to post their home email addresses or not – but we’ll get it working to where you can email mine or Ms. McKinnie. The website is a tool to get information out to the citizens and for the citizens to communicate back to the council and to the town. So we hope you’ll use it."

Mayor: "This is something that the council probably needs to decide if we want to deal with this pretty quickly. Denis Whicker is retiring – or has retired – from the Fire Department after 15 years and the question was did we want to honor him in any way. Kind of unusual to bring it up in a public session but this way it’ll be open. What’s the council’s thoughts on this?"

Ms. Welch: "Well, they do us a lot of favors, don’t they, by being the fire department?"

Mayor: "Well, we’re just looking that he’s retiring after 15 years and is there anything you want to do special; you just want to acknowledge it; or you might not even want to acknowledge it. It’s just up to you. It’s on the agenda to get your input."

Ms. Duggins: "I think we ought to at least send him a proclamation of gratitude for his continued service."

Mr. Linville: "It was suggested to give him a copy of the fire department print by Robin Klar – like the one that’s in Lynn’s office."

Mayor: "Get one framed for him if the council wants to approve it. We could invite him to the next meeting and do that if the council would like to do that."

Ms. Duggins: "I think that would be a good idea."

Mr. Larrimore: "That would be a good idea."

Mr. Warner: "That would be nice and appropriate. Since he’s already retired, would it be agreeable with the rest of the council that we go ahead with this gift at this time, rather than wait until another meeting to approve it? I think that’s a great suggestion."

Ms. Welch: "I think we ought to do it this time."

Mayor: "Is there any interest from the council, or anyone, on having a event? This is just a question for the council, do you want to have a community event?"

Ms. Welch: "Are you asking the town people too?"

Mayor: "If they want to speak to that later on, they can do that but the main thing is we wanted to see if there is any interest from the council. If the council doesn’t have any interest in it, since this is a working session, we don’t need to go forward with it."

Mr. Warner: "I think it would be nice but, on the other hand, too, I’m glad to see the public get some notice of it. We could listen to what they say and then come back……as far as what or when, I think there’s a lot to be said what and when. It would be nice to have something to bring the community back together."

Mayor: "Some people have suggested something like a Fourth of July picnic but I think Love’s already has a July 4^th picnic so they’ve already beat everybody on that one so you would have to pick a different time."

Ms. Duggins: "I also think we’d have to take a look at cost. A picnic wouldn’t be that much of a cost probably but if we put on an event like used to. You know, the Walkertown Merchants Association did much of the work, or most of the work there and carried most of the cost. So I think this is something we would have to do a lot of planning, a lot of thought in, what we can afford and how best to use the money that we would want to put aside for this. And maybe we could start another Merchants Association who would, could help out."

Mr. Warner: "I agree with you. I think maybe – what I’m thinking about is something like a Walkertown Community Day – maybe Labor Day. Or some other time, where it could be just a token as far as hot dog or something at the park where we could get people associating together. I think that might be more affordable."

Ms. Duggins: "Well, would you be interested, then, would the council be interested in a committee to look into this? Say a four or five-member committee that could put this together or throw around ideas to bring back to us?"

Mayor: "I think that’s the proper thing to do, is have a committee – not one to kill the idea but to pursue the idea."

Ms. Duggins: "Right."

Ms. Welch: "What was the date the town was incorporated? Does anyone remember?"

Lynn: "August, 1984 – I think the 12^th or the 20^th or something like that."

Harry Boles: "The 22^nd."

Ms. Duggins: "Why don’t we just each person put in two names on the council, mayor included, and then we will decide of those who we think would fill the needs of this much better…most applicable to this particular job."

Mayor: "Would you want a motion and second on that or do you just want to go with it? Let’s have a motion."

Ms. Welch: "Toby, I believe you said you had some figures for us?"

Mr. Linville: "No. They’re working on some figures. Waste Industries is going to give us some quotes for curbside and a collection site.________________"

Ms. Duggins: "I think that most surely, if we had a collection site, have to have a manned site for that reason. In other towns in other states that I’ve been in, it’s a mess if you don’t have it manned. It keeps some order. If we have a manned site, and it’s open to the community – not just the townpeople – now, I realize tax money’s going to be paying for this, but I would hate to see us not open this to the area. And if we’re going to do collection, like with the garbage, collecting with the individual homes being picked up, we need more participation than we’ve had in the past. We really have to do some kind of educational promotion or something in order to get more people to participate in this."

Ms. Welch: "Do we still have the names of those that we walked the streets to sign up for? When we did the petition before?"

Lynn: "I’ll check and see if we still have those."

Ms. Duggins: "But keep in mind, when we do that, the town will be paying for each household to participate, whether they do or not. It’s very important. I think it’s throwing money in the hole if you’re not going to participate. We’ll be paying so much for each household to participate. And it’s a very important thing. I’ve always said I’ve never been against recycling – we really do need to recycle but we need to get as many people as possible. We’re not unique in this area that we don’t recycle and take it more seriously. Every city that I know of and we’ve had people come to the council meetings and show to us how slow the growth is of people who would participate, and who do. Well, most people would say, ‘Sure, I will participate’ but then they don’t."

Ms. Welch: "Well, if we didn’t have it but once a month……."

Ms. Duggins: "Well, I don’t know if we can get it like that. That’s something that would have to be explored."

Mr. Linville: "They offer it various ways – weekly, every two weeks, etc."

Mayor: "I guess the options go from whether you choose curbside or not and then whether you do once a week, once a month, twice a month, three times or whatever. I think the one – when you go to as much as twice a month, you don’t have a great deal of savings because they have about the same amount of people and the same amount of equipment; so therefore, it’s not but like 10% or 15% savings over monthly. But if we tried something like once a month, that might be a difference or even a collection site that’s a central location. And you’re still working on those numbers, is that right?"

Mr. Linville: "Yes. If we do a convenience site, landfill will serve it_______________

Ms. Welch: "I would think we’d need applications to look at. How would I know John Blow from Suzy over here?"

Lynn: "We have blank applications to hand out."

Ms. Welch: "So they would need to come to Town Hall to pick up applications?"

Lynn: "That… or call me and I’ll mail them one."

Mayor: "Or would that be possible to put that on the website, Ms. McKinnie?"

Lynn: "Oh! Very good. Yes. I’ll fix one up and email it to Mr. Conrad tomorrow."

Mr. Larrimore: "Mayor, I’d like to go back to the original thing that Dot said she wanted to make herself available for this position.

Mayor: "Well, I don’t know if we need to deal with that tonight or wait til we start dealing with --- I don’t have a problem with whatever the council’s pleasure is."

Mr. Larrimore: "Well, I made a motion – it’s up for second or whatever."

Mr. Warner: "Mayor, I have no objection to Ms. Duggins serving on that but I think we’re moving out of our realm when we go ahead tonight; since this is a work session, I think we’ve all discussed rather openly what we feel. So I feel like we ought to wait until we make the whole move. I appreciate her offer."

Ms. Duggins: "Our group is not going to change, Horace. I don’t think we’re going to be changing so this is not something that is contingent on what we do with the other."

Mayor: "I would like for this group to be together on this whenever we did it. I don’t want us to be split on this. We need to be together on who serves on this. You four need to be together on who serves on this."

Mr. Larrimore: "Well, I was just looking back here that’s in our agenda; it’s got Arlyn Wilson all the way through Howard Benfield; then the City-County’s got Jimmy Norwood, and the county representative’s got two people. Walkertown’s town council representative’s got a bunch of question marks across there. Then we got the town manager and Fred Luce and Suzy Gallaway. I just………………."

Mayor: "…………..These were all proposed. None of these are in…………"

Ms. Welch: "…………..They’re non-voting members……….."

Ms. Duggins: "…………..Well, propose this: Just reword that, propose that………."

Mr. Larrimore: "…………..Propose Dot to be the council representative on this.."

Mayor: "Okay. We wrote that down as a proposed, just like that. Do ya’ll want to act on this tonight, councilmembers?"

Ms. Duggins: "Doesn’t matter to me."

Mr. Warner: "I believe I spoke mine – that I prefer to wait to do it all. I have no objections to Ms. Duggins………."

Ms. Duggins: "………..We can wait. But we still aren’t going to be changing……."

Mayor: "……….Well, would ya’ll be in agreement, in lieu of these question marks, write in Ms. Duggins’ name for the time being til we……………?"

Ms. Welch: "……….For the time being………"

Mayor: "……….Til we get to the settling of this committee?? Is everyone in agreement to do that?? I know I have a motion on the floor but we…………"

Mr. Warner: "……….I still would rather wait….."

Mr. Larrimore: "Well, the Planning Board started January 1^st – it’s now January 11^th, Mr. Warner. We can put it off til next election – or whatever! But, I don’t see the reason not to."

Mayor: "This is going to be a very strategic committee and I want us to be together --- as a group. As a council, this council needs to be together! Either we do it together tonight, or we wait. Can you be together tonight, council?"

Mr. Warner: "I’m not ready. Okay?"

Mayor: "Would you be willing to hold on to your motion, Mr. Larrimore? I don’t know what the proper procedure is."

Att’y Bo Houff: "The motion dies from lack of a second."

Mayor: "Okay. We’ll just deal with this at another time. There’ll be more questions, I’m sure, to be asked, answered, etc., but we’ll get the…………. if I understood you correctly, the council’s in agreement to take the applications, is that right?"

Ms. Welch: "Right."

Mayor: "And we’ll have them on the website?"

Lynn: "Right."

Mayor: "And we’ll choose one committee from that."

Mr. Warner: "Let me ask. Are any of the members of the Planning Board have to make application for this or can they be taken from that board by this council?"

Ms. Duggins: "You’re talking about this Planning Board???"

Mr. Warner: "The question is, does any member of the Planning Board have to fill out an application or can they be automatic applied?"

Ms. Duggins: "No!! They’re automatically a part of this."

Mr. Warner: "Okay. That answers the question. So we can pick from that as well as the outsiders?"

Ms. Duggins: "Could I speak to that? I’d love to speak to that. One of Hank’s loves was the Garden Club. In fact, I think he had everything to do with beginning the Garden Club. Am I not right, Harry – do you remember? But I talked with Hank about recognition; remember, when we did a recognition for Hank here not too long ago about some sort of concrete evidence of our appreciation for being the first mayor. And we discussed this and he was amenable to our giving a donation in his honor. Now, it would be in his memory to the Garden Club."

Mr. Warner: "Mayor, I went back and reviewed the obituary to see if there was any specific request by the family and there was not. So I think this would be very appropriate."

Ms. Welch: "I do, too."

Ms. Duggins: "I also had discussed it with his family. Do we want to take action tonight on this?"

Mr. Warner: "I would think that we should go ahead and take action rather than delaying this because of the time limit."

Mr. Warner: "They will also be charged assessments on that Williston Road side, will they not?"

Mr. Linville: "They will."

Mr. Warner: "Yes. If I may comment on that, the reason that question that was raised is they charge 8%, as I recall…or 6%, is that right?"

Mr. Linville: "Six percent."

Mr. Warner: "So then what we’d be paying is 6% interest; if we had the money, we could pay it and avoid that 6% unless we’re earning that much on our money. Let me ask, they had delayed the assessment billing til the spring – this is related to that – are we paying money on what they did on the 38-rule contribution? Have they deducted off of the advanced amount. Are we paying interest on their 38-rule contribution."

Mr. Linville: "Yeah. All that money…….well……38% contribution, assessments and tap fees – we didn’t … they didn’t have that money, so………."

Mr. Warner: "But that’s their money! You see, they have that. They have that money already in savings. At one time they had $15million?? I forget. But the thing about it is this; what I’m trying to say is, when we came through with this plan, they made a 38-rule contribution like anyone else. They also gave a certain amount of estimated assessments. But my question here is I don’t think it’s fair for us, two things. First of all it’s not fair for us to pay interest to them on money that they were going to contribute at 38-rule assessment. And, second, if they’ve delayed til they get role assessment on the assessing the individuals, I don’t think it’s fair that we pay interest on that amount. Can we talk with them about it?"

Mr. Linville: "I don’t think it’s so much that they charge us interest on 38%, which has been given to us. I mean, it wasn’t there for us to use."

Mr. Warner: "I know. But it’s their responsibility because they were going to make that contribution, so why charge us interest when it was their contribution. More the 38%-rule than the assessment because I realize they have to go through the process of role assessment to connect the – to bill the individual. My point is this, I want to try to keep that interest cost as low as we can."

Mr. Linville: "(3) When we made our contract with Waste Industries, they would provide one can for each resident at their cost. They own the can. We had about 25 of those stolen. A few were damaged but they’ve replaced about 25 for the stolen. They’re to the point now where they don’t want to pay for any more."

Ms. Welch: "Where are they stolen from?"

Mr. Linville: "From the street!"

Ms. Duggins: "The people who aren’t in the town – in the donut holes – they don’t get their garbage picked up like they used to when there were garbage cans of all descriptions. Now the garbage cans are only picked up by Waste Industries with their name on it. So that ought to give you a clue as to why they’re being stolen."

Ms. Welch: "Oh! Fringe benefit!?"

Mr. Linville: "I think there were 30 stolen in one day in Stokesdale and the sheriff’s deputies out there said they thought they were being stolen for identity theft. They found some cans; the garbage had been picked through. I don’t know why you’d want to steal garbage cans – they’re not so light!"

Mayor: "What do you suggest, Mr. Linville?"

Mr. Linville: "Well, Bo and I talked and we don’t really know who ---- in a way, they belong to Waste Industries. But, also in a way, they’re going to provide one can one time – they’re not going to replace them every time they walk off."

Att’y Houff: "_____________________ The argument is, when a can has been stolen, is who was it stolen from? Was it stolen from Waste Industries? The can has been entrusted to the resident. ____________"

Mayor: "Technically, they’re in their care, custody and control, aren’t they?"

Mr. Houff: "Yes. Certainly I can say this, it is not a very lengthy contract – two pages plus an addendum of one page.________ So it’s not a very comprehensive document, for sure. It doesn’t address replacements of cans and it would be appropriate for the town to consider negotiating some sort of addendum to the contract to provide, one way or the other, for ____________. There are any number of possibilities ____________

_____________________________________________. Replace one, first one’s yours, second one we’ll replace --- I don’t know. We haven’t spoken……….."

Mr. Houff: "Fifty dollars."

Brenda Mabe: "They don’t put the cans back. Mine, I have to get mine of the street. So if somebody comes along, they can pick it up. I try to get mine back."

Mayor: "Ms. McKinnie and I were talking about that today – some of the people were having problems with them. I would hate to resort back to the asking them to file a claim on their homeowner policy but there is a provision in the homeowner policy for that – not for garbage can. But, if you know the loops, there is a place to find it – I know where to find it but I don’t want to suggest….. If property of others, in their care, custody, and control – they got like $200 or $250 – under the liability section of the homeowner policy. But we wouldn’t want to go causing everyone to make 30 or 40 claims on this. If you could work out something, and I think the council would be in agreement, to take care of the first one, work out some kind of deal. Council, ya’ll in agreement with that?"

Ms. Welch: "Yes."

Mayor: "Then after that, we may have to go back to the homeowners and say, ‘Look, you are going to have to file the next one.’ Are ya’ll in agreement with something like that?

Ms. Duggins: "Um hmmmm."

Mr. Larrimore: "Yep."

Ms. Welch: "Yes."

Mr. Warner: "Let me ask you this – if that’s not clearly stated in the contract, I think we ought to keep in the back of our minds, that may be a reason to make a change. Would that be right?"

Mayor: "Make a change, what are you saying?"

Mr. Warner: "Make a change in the service."

Ms. Duggins: "I think we have a contract for a certain length of time, we are liable to stay in that contract for that length of time unless we want to break it and pay the liability of that. We could have an addendum to that, could we not………?"

Mr. Houff: "……….Yes, you could have an addendum and also, it will very likely be made clear to Waste Industries, that if they want to continue after the expiration of this contract, with a new contract, they might want to have something that’s agreeable to the town, that the town might be more inclined _____________________."

Ms. Duggins: "True. True."

Mr. Warner: "And also the pick up service, they’ve changed the day on some of the routes. My point is this, when you’ve got a contract, you’ve got an agreement and you start deviating from that, could be considered cause for change."

Ms. Duggins: "Most waste industries, and, well, the contract we had with Waste Management, the contract usually reads that they can change at any point but we cannot. Am I right about that? I know our Waste Management contract read that way. If costs went up, they could change their charge to us, to the town, at any time, where we, as a town, could not. We could terminate that contract and pay the payout on it – pay the cost of terminating it, but I don’t know, I don’t remember what this one says. But it probably says basically the same thing."

Mr. Houff: "Nine months."

Ms. Duggins: "Nine months? Okay."

Mr. Houff: ___________________________

Ms. Duggins: "And performance review is very important – in contracts like this. It gives the town a little bit more persuasion in the prior contract."

Mr. Houff: ___________________________

Ms. Duggins: "No doubt we put that in there because of the problems we had with Waste Management and it is a good marker of what kind of service you’ve been given."

DISCUSSION CONTINUED BUT COULD NOT BE HEARD

Ms. Duggins: "I need to announce something. I tendered my resignation as of yesterday as the Public Works Officer, on Monday, January 12, 2004."

Mr. Larrimore: "You want us to vote on that?"

Ms. Duggins: "No. You don’t have a choice on that!"