Minutes for:

Mayor: "This is a time to discuss formulating the boundaries of the scope of the committee – the map boundary. Everybody has seen the map at one time or another. The map boundaries, the committee structure, the number of members on the committee, the application filing date is closed, as of today. And we will be selecting the members of that committee during the next two weeks and name that at the meeting on March 23^rd. So tonight we need to discuss the items listed here. Any discussion on the boundaries, council?"

Mr. Linville: "Those areas outside of our boundary, too, are for the county – for them to use. This plan we approved by the county commissioners and the county planning board as well – they’re sort of giving us the ability to tell them what we think it may look like so it’s sort of a gift to us but it’s for them."

Mr. Warner: "I’m more interested in representation than I am in the number on the committee. If it takes more than a dozen to get all areas that we’re talking about represented, then I’m open to go more than twelve. I think numbers sometimes are restrictive; in this case, I’m more or less into representation of all our citizens in outlying communities….."

Mr. Warner: "…….I’m trying to say this, that I don’t want us to tie ourselves into twelve unless we’ve got any of that twelve to representation from all areas."

Mr. Warner: "I mean, I would suggest to all of us that we give consideration to representation; that we pick the twelve out sixteen that we have. It’s not that many, and there are some that are not in our area that do have an interest in the area. And then, they may or may not. The main thing is to be sure we get representation regardless of our number – but back to the question, numbers……….."

Mr. Warner: "I will say this: I noticed that one of the latest registrations, or application, came from the husband of one that had earlier applied and I don’t think that we need a couple on there – a husband and a wife – because I think that’s duplicating already. So that may help us reduce the numbers without giving up the quality of the committee. Do you understand what I’m trying to say?"

Mr. Warner: "Not that we want to leave anyone out that’s willing to serve. I feel like if we have to eliminate, well then maybe we can get the same value without having two people – just have one."

Mayor: "Do you think it’s necessary that we have a minimum number on the committee and a maximum number; or do you think that’s even needed? What do you think, Ms. Welch?"

Ms. Welch: "Well, we don’t have but about fifteen applications and I don’t know whether we can whittle it down to nine or not. I’m just thinking."

Mayor: "I think Ms. Duggins just suggested that as a minimum. I don’t think that was a maximum, wasn’t that what you said, Ms. Duggins?"

Mr. Larrimore: "Yeah. I think we need at least nine and we could have more than that if we wanted. It’s up to council. I noticed some of these are not in Walkertown or not in an area that could even help us but, still, whatever."

Mayor: "Well, do you want to leave the number open? Is that what I hear you saying? I don’t hear a definite…..I hear some minimum and maximum numbers from nine to twelve."

Mayor: "Do you want to leave it open? Do you want to set a number? Do you want a minimum? Do you want a maximum? Or do you not want to deal with the numbers? Steve, you got any guidance?"

Mr. Garland: "The only thing I’m thinking is that you are appointing this group. If there are going to be people you leave off, then there will have to be a rational reason for that. So you’re going to have to have standards that are going to – I think, if you have an unlimited number of people, unless you have other standards, then I think all sixteen people who have applied would be on your committee. So if you want to limit the number of people on your committee, then I think you need to set a number. And then you want to appoint those folks, you’d vote and you’d continually vote until you had fifteen people elected to your group. Again, I think it really comes down to whether or not you just want to appoint that group of sixteen people or whether or not you want to have fewer people and do it. I think you can do either one but I think if you don’t put a number on it, you’re going to have to have other reasons to differentiate between the people who have applied if you’re not going to want to have all sixteen people on your board."

Ms. Duggins: "I’d like to ask a question, have we asked the Planning Board to look at these names and applications and see what their thoughts are, …….. because this is ………… a sub-committee of the Planning Board.

Mayor: "……..I know Peggy has reviewed the applications at one time…… I’m assuming …… she’s ……. I don’t know if she has looked at the new ones………..Have you looked at the new ones? I have not."

Ms. Leight: "We have sixteen people who’ve put forth the effort and have said they are willing to meet and who have an interest in Walkertown. And from what we’ve discussed before and in talking with Fred, it is not a small time commitment. We are talking about meeting a couple of times a month and some of these meetings can get lengthy. So I think that in a number of cases, we will have a number of absences. So the numbers will fluctuate. I think if you have these people who are interested and willing to put forth the effort for Walkertown, I would say, accept all of them!"

Ms. Duggins: "That’s good enough for me! I move that we take all of those that have volunteered to serve."

Mr. Warner: "Mr. Garland’s statements addressed both of my concerns; that is, as far as location, if you take all of them, then you’ve got the people. You’ve got the area. These have volunteered to serve. As far as duplication, that’s no problem there as I can see as long as you take all of them. If you …. whittle down, ….. different criteria…. have to use …….. "

Ms. Duggins: "………… Excuse me……. We may not have …… every area covered, but we have the people who are willing to do it and we can’t go out into an area and make someone represent their area. So yeah, people who are willing to do it, usually do a better job."

Mr. Warner: "If you’ll remember, as I discussed previously, I said that Kernersville is now in the process of revising it. They have five committees with twenty-five total people. I realize we’re talking about different people, things, but….. I think the advice over there is good."

Mayor: "So…. do I hear you say you want to accept … you’re going to make the committee, the Land Use Committee, out of all applicants that have applied, is that what I hear you saying?"

Mr. Warner: "…. That we’re … saying since we’re committed to the next meeting as far as the final appointment, we’re saying that the applications are now closed, that we are considering accepting all of those applications and we will make that firm, right?"

Mr. Garland: "I think what you might want to do is just say that you will have a committee up to sixteen appointed people. I see that you’re going to have other people that are sort of ad hoc committee members; that now you’re talking about the size of the committee, the appointed members. Since you have sixteen applications, you might just want to go ahead and approve the membership of the committee as at least sixteen – of up to sixteen members. And that way, it’ll allow you next time to go ahead……."

Mr. Garland: "………Up to sixteen appointed members. And that would be --- and ad hoc members would in addition to that."

Mr. Warner: "What happens if we have a resignation? Do we appoint a replacement? We haven’t addressed that yet and maybe it’s premature to do it."

Mr. Warner: "So what we said in the motion is we are actually moving to structure up to sixteen members."

Mayor: "Appointed members, that’s correct. That was appointed members is what council had said. That was what Ms. Duggins’ motion was, is that what your second was?"

Mayor: "Okay. Now – the term. This task is for setting the direction, basically, this game plan should be drawn, what do you think Mr. Luce? A year? Would it take that long?"

Mayor: "Basically, it could be less – it could be longer though, don’t you think?"
Mr. Luce: "You might be able to do it _______ or by next Thanksgiving. Have a draft, then be ready to move forward _____ this council holds public hearings ________."

Mayor: "Is it customary that there’s a term set and I’m just getting this information before we turn it over to the council to discuss, is it customary that there’s a term set or do you just run the period of making the game plan, making the plan?"

Mayor: "Okay. That would make more sense --- well, I don’t want to say if you choose to do otherwise, you’re not making sense. That would be pretty sensible. Okay. What’s your pleasure on the term?"

Mr. Warner: "I would move that we go ahead and appoint this committee to completion of the project. That way they don’t have any restrictions as far as time; they do the job as they’re supposed to do it and do it well. I would like to see it promptly, of course."

Mayor: "Okay. So you’re moving to – the committee would be appointed to the completion of the Land Use Plan. Is that correct?"

Mr. Warner: "No. Not the Land Use Plan. Now, we’re talking about a committee here who’s going to be a fact-finding committee that will present information to the Planning Board….. I guess you could say that – yeah – because they could stay in session until the Planning Board makes final --- yes. Because it is the Planning Board’s responsibility and authority to present to this council a Land Use Plan for our approval. We don’t want to take anything away from their authority. So, yes, completion would be all right because it goes all the way through. That way, the Planning Board could always use them until they’re ready to submit to us."

Mayor: "Any further discussion concerning that or is everybody clear as to how long they will serve, and their duties? Okay. All in favor…."

Mayor: "Next we’ll have some other appointments on the committee that would not be, I guess you’d consider from the applications. These are City-County Planning Board liaison, Council liaison and staff. So first is the City-County Planning representative. What was the recommendation on that; was it not Mr. Luce?"

Mayor: "Excuse me. Jimmy Norwood. Beg your pardon. Jimmy Norwood – and tell us who he is, please."

Mayor: "Okay. That’s always a good recommendation. Did you want to accept that, council?"

Mayor: "And let’s get the others, two or three, whichever we got. The Planning Board liaison, who would that be? Who is the person would be for that? Who would be the logical one for that?"

Mayor: "Oh! This is from our Planning Board – Excuse me. I beg your pardon! Okay. So that’ll be ‘To be determined’."

Mayor: "Is that agreeable with the council to --- We’ll just vote on all these together at one time. The council, which will be from this group’s, liaison ----"

Mayor: "All right. This, I believe, we had talked in the past that this would be an advisory position and liaison and a non-voting like the Planning Board, is that correct?"

Mayor: "All of these in the Land Use would be advisory and non-voting as far as the –----. Is that correct, Steve?"

Mr. Linville: "That’ll be myself, Fred Luce, Lynn, probably another member of the Planning Board staff – either Suzy or David, if needed, and Bo Houff, if we need him."

Mr. Linville: "Well, that’s if another member of the County Planning Board staff help and if Bo Houff helps (Steve’s counterpart) -- if we need legal counsel."

Mr. Garland: "They don’t need to be appointed. Staff just sort of staffs the function without appointment."

Mayor: "Okay. Is everybody clear on those? Is there a motion to receive these as we discussed – that would be Jimmy Norwood from the City-County Planning Board, the one that’s determined by the Planning Board itself, the liaison from the Planning Board. That person will be determined by the Planning Board. The liaison for the Town Council will be Ms. Duggins. And the staff will be Toby, Fred Luce, Ms. McKinnie and, of course, others that would fill in from time to time on that. Is that what we are voting on?"

Ms. Welch: "Well, I’d like to make the motion, as the ad hoc committee – the ones that you’ve just read."

Mayor: "Before I leave that, is there anything further – any other parameters that need to be set. We had an open item there – I just left it. Well, "we" didn’t have it – I did on mine. Is there anything further on the land use that needs to be discussed tonight. I don’t know if there is but if there is, now is the time."

Mr. Warner: "I just want to be sure that there is no misunderstanding on the Land Use Committee and what their function is; particularly, related to the Planning Board. Because I don’t want anyone to think we’re taking away authority from the Planning Board by having this input. Do you understand that, everyone?"

Mayor: "Okay. School Committee Appointees. This is the high school committee that we’re trying to form – not form a high school, formulate a committee to bring home the bacon – or at least, a high school! Any comments? We have a list of volunteers. Is there anything you want to talk about concerning this high school committee? Do you think it’s something we need to do? Do you think we need to abandon? What’s the feeling of this council?"

Ms. Welch: "I think we need to get someone over there working for us! … Even though they may say we’re Number One on the list, that doesn’t always hold true, does it?"

Ms. Duggins: "This is an excellent committee and I think that it’s very important that we have someone lobbying for continued progress in this area."

Ms. Welch: "I think a high school in Walkertown is much better here than on Reynolds Park Road."

Mayor: "We’d feel like it would be better here than any other place --------- than any other place! Mr. Larrimore, do you have any comments on the high school committee?"

Mr. Warner: "No comment. I just appreciate the people that are willing to step forth because we do need the representation. In thinking back to some years ago, and I won’t go through the detail, but I approached one of the school board members and said, ‘We have a unique problem in Walkertown because of a certain situation. Would the School Board consider that in appropriating funds to meet whatever needs we might have?’ I was looked right straight in the eye and told, ‘You need to get representation on the School Board.’ So it says to me that if we don’t have this committee, we don’t have any representation."

Mayor: "That’s a whole new subject. Would ya’ll like to formulate a committee tonight with these – form this committee with these names that are listed?"

Ms. Duggins: "With consideration, will you add this to it? That if there are other people who would like to join this committee, because this is a committee where you can’t get too many on?

Ms. Duggins: "We wouldn’t want to keep it to this limited number. Because any time you go out and speak, if, say, the County Commissioners do pass that, they will go along with putting this on the agenda to vote in favor of allowing a bond issue to come up, we really need to have a lot of people who are willing to go out and speak for our area whenever there is questions and when they’re meeting in different schools and discussing where they would put this, in case we do have to say, ‘We think it’s better put in Walkertown’."

Mr. Warner: "If I understand the comments, this would not be a committee limited to this number?"

Mr. Warner: "I think that’s the right thing because there are many people that may come in later on and ask to serve on this committee. This could be considered a ‘core’ committee and then add to it as we go."

Mayor: "We need to consider out of this group, a chairman of this committee. I know that often time’s committees formulate themselves but since we’re appointing this committee, and I see at least one member here tonight. I don’t know what the council’s …."

Ms. Duggins: "I think we’d have to speak to Dana first to – have to speak to Dana since Arlyn’s already…………"

Ms. Wilson: "I think we need someone that’s going to be involved with young children. I’m going to write my letters and do my thing but it means a lot when Dr. Martin sees a young person stand up there and say things."

Ms. Duggins: "Well, anyone of these would make an…. excellent …..chairperson….."

Mayor: "………Well, we’ll deal …… with chairman ……later…….. We need someone to give leadership, to really be the driving force on this committee. We don’t want to have a committee in name. That’s not what we’re looking for. We’re looking for a committee to bring home the school – not looking for a name."

Ms. Duggins: "And if they want co-chairs ………"

Mayor: "………Sure!"

Ms. Duggins: "………That’s certainly feasible!"

Mr. Warner: "Restate the motion. …….This…. is to…. make this… committee, ….is that right? We didn’t … select ….. the chairman?"

Ms. Duggins: "…That……this….committee…...No……no…….We can’t……..vote….for a chairman….without…….talking to someone …..and…..them accepting it."

Mr. Larrimore: "….No……And this will be an open-ended……….."

Mr. Warner: "……..Open-ended committee, right."

Mr. Linville: "This committee will get together in the next week or two and let them select their chairperson."

Resolution # 04-002

Charge Clerk to Investigate Annexation Petition for Voluntary Annexation #7

Mayor: "This resolution involves the -- charging the clerk to investigate annexation petition for voluntary annexation #7. In our work packet here, we see voluntary annexation #7 involves:

1) Todd Yarbrough 1034 Whirl Win Dr. Winston-Salem

2) Donald Ray Brown 5120 Largo Dr. Winston-Salem

3) Larry & Nancy Bolden 2029 Chris Dr. Walkertown

4) WS/FC Board of Education Old Belews Creek Walkertown

(The corner of Old Belews Creek Road and Williston Road)

Mr. Larrimore: "The new school."

Mayor: "Sir? Yep. That’s the new school that has to be annexed. That’s the four properties that is being investigated under annexation #7. Ya’ll have any discussion from the council on that?"

Mr. Warner: "I move that we ask the clerk to investigate the annexation petitions of those listed."

Mr. Warner: "As we’ve gone forth in the past, I believe at the last meeting, I asked our town manager to bring us some indication of the costs of all these annexations we’ve done. I would like this one included in that to know what we’re going to be spending because there will be revenue received, in time. But I notice on here that we do have the Board of Education, which will be a tax-exempt institution. We need to know – I don’t want anyone denied, but we need to know what we are doing so can we include that in that report……..?"

Mr. Linville: "……..Sure. We’ll look at all that at budget time."

Mr. Warner: "Right. If you will. See, we’re coming up on our budget, is what I’m asking. So we need to get all this information together before we go with budget, okay? Thank you."

Mr. Larrimore: "Well, they got this school as tax value of $158,800………."

Mayor: "……….That must be land value……….."

Mr. Larrimore: "……….Yeah. That’s what I was going to say…….."

Mayor: "……….Far corner of the land value………"

Mr. Warner: "Actually, since we won’t be collecting any revenue off of that, we do not provide any garbage service or anything like that. That’s all in the county itself. In fact, fire protection – how is that handled?"

Ms. Welch(?): "City View."

Mr. Warner: "But who pays for it?"

Ms. Duggins: "Well, one thing that we will get off that is a lot of flushing of the bathrooms – lot of flushing of toilets! We will get that!"

Mr. Warner: "You mean they’ll have to pay for water and sewer?"

Ms. Duggins: "Yes. Yes."

Mr. Warner: "I was talking about fire protection; who pays for that?"

Mayor: "Well, the Town of Walkertown pays for that."

Mr. Warner: "So we have to pay the six-cents on the hundred and not get any revenue?"

Mayor: "Well, I say --- I stand corrected on that. I stand corrected on that."

Mr. Linville: "That’s already being paid."

Mr. Larrimore: "Yeah – it’s been paid. It’s within …………………."

Mr. Warner: "………But it’s being paid by the property owner now. It’s not being annexed until now. When it becomes annexed, then it becomes our responsibility, is that right?"

Mr. Larrimore: ".._________"

Mr. Linville: "We’ll have to pay the debt service portion of that."

Mr. Warner: "I’m talking about the fire protection."

Mr. Linville: "I don’t know how that works for a tax exempt entity – who pays – nobody pays _______"

Mayor: "Ask your right hand there – you can find out. That’s the reason we had him here, to tell us that."

Mr. Garland: "Actually, right off the bat, I can’t. I’ll need to look at it for you but my guess would be that …………….."

Mr. Larrimore: "………..It’s within a stone’s throw of the shopping center…….."

Mr. Garland: "………..I would think that the same tax exemption that would apply to them, with respect to the city, would apply to them, most likely, with respect to the fire district as well. I mean, I’m not sure they’re paying any tax right now and if they’re not, then it’s no change when they come into the city."

Mr. Warner: "You mean the property owner here that has now………?"

Mr. Garland: "No! The tax exempt one I am saying…"

Mr. Warner: "……..The school system?….."

Mayor: "…I think what he’s saying, the school system’s not paying any taxes now and just because they come into the city’s not going to change it. Is that what you’re saying, Steve?"

Mr. Garland: "That’s what I was thinking, yeah."

Mr. Warner: "That’s right, they won’t pay any tax; but who’s going to pay for their fire protection?"

Mr. Garland: "And that’s what I’m saying, though. If they weren’t paying for that fire protection before, and the County wasn’t – in other words, the City-County Board wasn’t, then I don’t think you would be obligated to."

Mr. Warner: "And that property owner was paying a fire tax on vacant land – and that tax would be 8 ½ cents on the hundred since that’s in the City View district. My thinking is they’re not going to give up that 8-½ cents on the hundred. Somebody’s going to have to pay it. I want to know who?!"

Mr. Garland: "I guess that’s what I was saying; the property owner right now, Winston-Salem Forsyth County Board of Education ………….."

Mr. Warner: "………..Bought it now, so who’s paying it now? I don’t know. Because, see, they’re not in Walkertown so that would have to be between the fire department then and whoever. Once you’re put in Walkertown, then we become responsible for fire protection."

Mr. Garland: "I understand. I guess what I was saying, though, was that it’s sort of like if a non-profit came in and took over a piece of property, they wouldn’t then subsequently have to ----- again, I don’t the fire district – that code – as well as I know the property tax code. Rather than confuse the subject on something I don’t know the answer to, let’s just let me talk about it next time."

Mr. Warner: "Can we check that out?"

Mayor: "I guess that’d be the same for any non-profit, wouldn’t it, whether it be a church or a school or whatever?"

Mr. Linville: "I think they just lose that revenue."

Mr. Warner: "It’ll be the same as a church, that’s for sure."

Mr. Garland: "But, I don’t know that that’s absolutely the fact. That would be my problem."

Mr. Larrimore: "Well, we didn’t lose anything. It wasn’t in town before and they’re asking to come into town with this voluntary annexation so it’s a wash."

Mayor: "Um hmmmm."

Mr. Warner: "While we are in discussion here, do we have any other annexation petitions that have not been handled? This will complete everything that we’ve had up til now? So once we come up with a cost factor and all, we will know where we are."

Mr. Linville: ‘’And if we want to proceed, then we’ll do this summer like we did last summer and send out letters to folks and try to complete some of these subdivisions, target some areas if we want to . But that’s up to the pleasure of the council."

Mr. Warner: "And that’s good. And once we know the cost and how we stand then that’ll give us motivation or either restrict us one."

Mayor: "All right. We did vote on that so we go forward on the ………."

Mr. Warner: "…We’re ready to vote. That was discussion."

Mayor: "We did the vote?"

Mr. Warner: "It was just discussion there."

Mayor: "We’ve been discussing so long I forgot whether we voted or not!"

Mayor: "You’ll see attached a form – a bid sheet that was sent out to a number of companies in the last week or so."

Mr. Warner: "Do we have an actual count on the households to be served? I notice here we are sending this out on 1750 but if I recall in the last meeting, didn’t we have a count of 1648 or something to that effect? The point is, we don’t want to be paying for something we’re not getting."

Mr. Linville: "No. As of the last bill, we’re serving 1750 households – what it says in the form. That includes all the businesses as well."

Mr. Warner: "All the businesses?"

Mr. Linville: "Um hmmm."

Mr. Warner: "Now, what is our status with businesses as far as garbage pick-up? We’re not serving all the businesses?"

Mr. Linville: "Um hmmm."

Ms. Welch: "Supposed to be."

Mr. Warner: "As of when?"

Mr. Linville: "As of forever, I guess. They had Waste Management before."

Mr. Warner: "I can’t speak with authority on that but I was thinking there was some businesses that we did not serve. Is that right, Ms. McKinnie?"

Lynn: "When we had Waste Management, we did not serve all the businesses. I think we actually served about 25. And some had dumpsters they paid for."

Mr. Warner: "Waste Management did serve all businesses?"

Ms. Welch: "No. No."

Mr. Linville: "She said there were about 25."

Mr. Warner: "I thought you said we served all businesses?"

Mr. Linville: "Not all businesses, because a lot of folks had dumpsters."

Mr. Warner: "You did say we served all of them, but now we don’t, is that right?"

Mr. Linville: "Right."

Mr. Warner: "So we need to know what we’re doing, is what I’m saying now."

Mayor: "So, do they choose? I’m a little confused…"

Ms. Duggins: "If they have a dumpster, they wouldn’t use – if they pay for a dumpster."

Mr. Linville: "It’s small businesses like Prudential across the road, the insurance office up 66. None of the big shopping centers use it because they all have dumpsters."

Mr. Warner: "So we’re just including what we service with solid waste, is that what you’re saying? And that’s seventeen hundred and something now?"

Mr. Linville: "I think the last count was 1737 – from last month’s bill."

Mr. Warner: "I guess what brings this to my mind is we put out a bill for the solid waste pick-up based on 1650 and we had all those extra bins left over there. Many of those were put out to people that were going to be annexed, which means we started paying for them before they ever were annexed and now we’re going to be paying for it until they start paying revenue…….."

Mr. Linville: "…….Um hmmm….."

Mr. Warner: "…..So that’s the reason I asked for the cost so we’ll know what we’re doing."

Mayor: "Is there any question on this recycle bin form that was sent out to four companies in the area? Any comment or anything you want to discuss concerning that? This is basically for information."

Mr. Warner: "I noticed just this week where the town of Pilot Mountain put a notice in the paper soliciting bids for solid waste pick-up and I don’t know, I don’t think we need to do that. As long as we are reaching all the people who provide service in this area, that’s tantamount to the same thing. Is these four the only ones that will serve this area?"

Mr. Linville: "These are the only four collection services as far as I know."

Mr. Warner: "As far as one of them, and particularly I’m talking about Waste Management, do they still do their own separation and handling? They do Winston-Salem, I know – or did."

Mr. Linville: "I think so. I think so."

Mr. Warner: "Now earlier we said this that with Waste Industries, they have a problem there, have to take it to Raleigh and sometimes they have to pay to dispose of it, did I not read that in our minutes? I believe they made that statement."

Mayor: "Waste Industries told us that glass, for instance, had to be taken to Raleigh. There was not a local – I believe that’s correct – he told us…."

Mr. Warner: "……That was in the minutes. But has anything been said from Waste Management? Any discussion with them or anything? They do still do their own, I think."

Mr. Linville: "We just sent these out last week so we haven’t heard back.."

Mr. Warner: "….And you haven’t communicated with anyone there at Waste Management?"

Mr. Linville: "No. Other than just to tell them that they were getting a bid and to call when they wanted to discuss."

Mayor: "Ms. Welch, you up on all this?"

Ms. Welch: "Yes."

Mayor: "I know you staying on that recycle…."

Ms. Welch: "Trying to!"

Mr. Linville: "One thing to note – they’re going to get these bids in by April 1^st and the council will have basically a month to discuss that but try to make a determination at the April 27^th meeting – a little bit of a time frame."

Mr. Warner: "So we get them in by April 1^st and we have to have the budget by June 30^th so that should give us enough time but we’ll have to move right along with it."

Mayor: "This was a discussion that while the road was being widened in front of the school and by Love’s Church, it would be an ideal time, since they’ll be putting in curb and guttering as well to discuss putting sidewalks through that area. I noticed children the other day, I see them walking in the side ditch when they’re going walking down the road because there’s not room between the fence and the road without being in the side ditch so this is our discussion on the sidewalks concerning that area. Do you have any feelings toward it?"

Ms. Welch: "Well, I like the idea but didn’t they say that they would pay part of it when they were laying the curbing – the cost?"

Mayor: "Well, the cost right now – we don’t know anything about that because Toby hasn’t really got prices. We’re waiting to see if the council is even in favor of going forward with that. This is just a matter for discussion tonight and see if you want Toby to get prices and to go forward. D.O.T., at the present, there’s nothing included in this job except widening the road to three lanes to New Street which will be feathered in to a two-lanes at Harley Drive and curb and gutter on both sides of the street. There’s no sidewalks included; there’s no payment promised at this point. There may be, but there’s nothing been promised, is that correct, Toby?"

Mr. Linville: "That’s correct."

Mr. Warner: "I think before we make a decision, we definitely need to know what the cost would be and I don’t know whether it’s going to cost to get that estimate or not……"

Mr. Linville: "…….It’s something that they can work up. I’ve been, I’ve called the D.O.T. engineer probably six times and he’s called me back three and we miss each other and I haven’t been able to catch up with him and he knows what we want. And the other engineers working on it know what we want, too. Probably what will happen is the company that’s been selected to do the curb work, that’s who I really need to be talking to because they can give me a price of what it’s going to cost but D.O.T. can give us a round number if they’ll get off their haunches and get us a number."

Ms. Duggins: "Toby, did you ask or find out if we can use Powell Bill money for that?"

Mr. Linville: "We can."

Ms. Duggins: "We can? Good."

Mayor: "Powell Bill money is available and it is about 1500 feet."

Ms. Duggins: "We do need to --- I’d like to see sidewalks in that area and we need to start looking more like a town. And there a lot of people who walk to the shopping center; walk to the grocery store that walk by that way."

Mr. Warner: "I definitely agree if it’s affordable."

Mayor: "Would ya’ll be willing to ask Toby to investigate and get us some – what the price would be so we can make a good decision on the sidewalk?…….."

Ms. Welch: "………I would."

Mayor: "……….That would be from --- the space would be probably from Harley Drive to, actually, to Eckerd’s. Now, which side of the road it would fall on and where it would fall, we don’t know. Since this is just in the talking stages, there’s quite a bit of legwork to be done."

Mr. Warner: "Is right-of-way available?"

Mr. Linville: "Um hmmmm. Right-of-way is not an issue."

Mr. Warner: "So right-of-way would not have to be considered. Now, don’t we have to act on this pretty fast? I believe in previous minutes you said they’d be moving dirt by the 20^th…….."

Mayor: "…………They’re not going to deliver pipe on that project until in the morning!"

Mr. Warner: "Because as far as I know, that project’s never been approved anyway."

Mayor: "I don’t know. As far as D.O.T. is concerned, it’s on the scale and it’s going forward. That’s the one thing that’s on that project that’s, while we’re talking about these sidewalks, D.O.T., I should’ve told the audience, citizens earlier, D.O.T. was going to be here. The engineer, Steve Gibbs, was going to be here with D.O.T. but they are without power – he is without power – and they have to prepare for the blizzard that’s coming in tonight and that’s the reason he couldn’t be here."

Mr. Warner: "The only thing that concerns me is I don’t want to start into something unless we know what we’re going to do, how we’re going to do it, and what we’re going to pay for it. This …… has ……… happened in the …… past and ………. that’s the reason I’m bringing this up now."

Mayor: "Well, …..I …….. wish seeing ……….. well, I think what we’re discussing is to get the price …….."

Mr. Warner: "…….That’s right!…………."

Ms. Welch: "…….Right……….."

Mayor: "……..On the sidewalk. We’re not authorizing building any sidewalks. We’re not doing anything but getting a price. Is that what we all hear, council?"

Mr. Warner: "Right."

Ms. Welch: "That’s what I hear."

Ms. Duggins: "And … we have…….Powell Bill money……."

Mr. Warner: "………It will ……… come back for our approval……….."

Ms. Duggins: "…..Yeah…………yeah."

Mr. Warner: "………Before we move forward, right?"

Ms. Duggins: "……….Yeah. Yes."

Mr. Larrimore: "……….Well, let me say……….something …………"

Mayor: "……….Is that………….? Yes sir?"

Mr. Larrimore: "……….The drawings are back there. We’ve looked at them before and it shows them with the ----- and I’d hate to have to have them come out here and grade about three different times while we were making up our minds."

Mayor: "Well, if we can ------ hopefully, we would not have to call a Special Meeting for that; but if we had to ----- because they are going to move quickly. And we need to be ready as a council to move quickly if you want sidewalks -------- if you don’t want sidewalks, you know, it won’t matter. It’s not a great big deal…….."

Mr. Linville: "………..Well, the beauty of it is is the curb is going to be the last thing that gets done so we’ve got plenty of time to decide. You know, if this had something to do with the drainage, then we’d have to act immediately but ……………"

Mayor: "………..Right……………"

Mr. Linville: "………..But that’s going to take however long – and then the paving and then, finally, the curb and gutter. So we have to…………."

Mayor: "………..And the beauty part of that also, they’re going to be putting the curb and gutter ---- and it’ll be a matter of putting a different form about four foot back, is what it amounts to. I think. And ever who’s pouring the curb and guttering would be the logical person to, or logical company, to do the sidewalks."

Mr. Linville: "I would say there couldn’t be a better time to do than while they’re working out there already."

Mr. Larrimore: "While he’s grading, he needs to be taking down that rock wall and little odd things like that and we need to help them all we can about getting our mind made up."

Mayor: "So, is the council all together – and if we need a motion, we’ll do it, take a motion that we authorize Toby to obtain prices on sidewalks from Harley Drive to Eckerds. Actually, it would run to Lakawanna – stop at Lakawanna. Isn’t that correct?"

Ms. Welch: "Yeah. Yes."

Mr. Warner: "No. Lakawanna – you’re talking about Lakawanna…………."

Mayor: "Excuse me!!! Ruxton -- Ruxton Drive. Not Lakawanna. From Harley Drive to Ruxton Drive. We’re not going down to your place, Horace! Let’s have a motion to make sure we’re clear on what we’re doing."

Mr. Warner: "All right, now. The motion is to get costs as quickly as we can for the council to approve, or either to disapprove, to provide sidewalks from Harley Drive to Ruxton Drive, in keeping with the project that D.O.T.’s doing on widening street."

Mayor: "The only addition to that would be from where the project was 3-laned before, right out here in front of the ---- starts about midways of the school, it was already 3-laned so that would not be ---- that project would be in addition …………."

Mr. Warner: "………….No, that would just be extra…………"

Mayor: "………..Right. That’s extra to the project because they’re not going to be doing any work. D.O.T. only starts midway of the school going north on Main Street to New Street and Harley Drive."

Ms. Duggins: "I second that."

Mayor: "You made the motion, didn’t you, Horace?"

Mr. Warner: "Yes."

Mr. Warner: "Only thing there is, when we get that bid, if need be for a Special Meeting so we can get that moving in time. We don’t want to get left behind."

Mayor: "Does that sound reasonable, Toby?"

Mr. Linville: "I don’t think we’ll need that but we’ll keep it in mind if we have to."

Mayor: "This is authorization or to discuss if Toby, if you would like Toby to look into some grants that would be available and possibly would be available for bicycle, pedestrian paths; that’s the first part of it. Toby, you got anything to say about that?"

Mr. Linville: "Yeah. Bad news. That grant is not for construction – just looking at it briefly, it looked like it would be; but it’s just for making a bicycle or pedestrian plan and if we wanted to explore that option, we could. It’s pretty obvious if we wanted to do a sidewalk plan, though, where they would need to go, from down 66 and down Main Street. I don’t think we need an engineer plan to show us where it needs to be."

Mayor: "So you’ve already checked on what you could find and the grants are not available for any construction of that, is that correct?"

Mr. Linville: "It’s just for paperwork….."

Mr. Warner: "……..Let me ask, how many bike routes we have now? One coming down Darrow Road from 66 down to Ruxton, then I guess it proceeds on over here and goes down 66. What’s the purpose of that? Do they own that right-of-way, I suppose? My point being …………"

Mr. Linville: "………..No. That’s just a -----. It’s a Forsyth County, and it’s larger than that. It’s the metropolitan area bike plan and they’re getting ready to revamp that. The original plan was done in ’74. The maps were drawn in ’92 and that’s probably about the time those signs were put up. It’s just areas that aren’t as heavily traveled that bikers can use and there’s different routes all over the county. Now they dip into Davie County, up into Stokes --- that’s how large their plan area is. I just met with the new Steering Committee today for the first time and that’ll give us a chance to look at the roads that are on their plan in our area and see if they are the right ones or if we need to go a different route to get away from traffic."

Mr. Warner: "And that plan does provide any right-of-way or anything?……."

Mr. Linville: "……..No. It’s just………"

Mr. Warner: "……..It’s just a matter of an independent/indicated(?) thing………I’ve been confused on that a long time."

Mayor: "All right. So there’s nothing available at this time except for plans?"

Mr. Linville: "That’s right."

Mayor: "What about the Clean Water Act? What’s the………"

Mr. Linville: "……….I haven’t explored that one yet but it’s money for……..it’s for the stormwater management. I don’t know if it’s for construction, if it’s for planning, but that’s what if that’s geared towards, so ------. As, get ready for that stormwater conference in April, I’m sure they’ll be talking about that pool of money. If it’s something that we can use, that’d be great…….."

Mr. Warner: "We applied with Lewisville for a grant back in --- several years ago, I’ll put it that way ---- and it was not approved. Lewisville went ahead with their plan; we didn’t. So I guess this would be somewhat in the same category as that, right, and it may or may not be successful?"

Mr. Linville: "Imagine so."

Mayor: "All right. Anything further concerning the grants?"

Ms. Duggins: "Do you need an okay to look into that? Is that what you’re asking or is this just for information?"

Mr. Linville: "Just for information only. Stuff that slid across my desk."

Mr. Linville: "We’ve already talked about the town festival. Again, that committee will meet Monday, the 15^th, at 4:30 in the afternoon. And we’ll be meeting with a representative from Parks to help us along. Last meeting, Mr. Warner had asked if the HUD supported apartments that were proposed for Poindexter Street had gotten approval – and they did not receive approval last year. But the developers want to go forward with that process again and try to get it again this year so they’ll be meeting with us. They’ll have that same type of resolution of support that they did last year. They said they’ll try again. He said that Ashville and YMCA got all the HUD money this year for the state so ----."

Mr. Warner: "Last year that came in in such a spur of the moment thing, do they bring any additional information, such as the type structure and so forth that they provide that we could review?"

Mr. Linville: "They had a rough idea that it was going to be multi-story units and the number, I think it was 50; but yeah."

Mr. Warner: "But mason-construction or anything like that included in there?"

Mr. Linville: "I can’t remember if they talked about that or not…….."

Mr. Warner: "……….I think it’s a mixed-thing, if I remember. But any rate, we’ll have more time to think about it than we had last time."

Mr. Linville: "Hope so. One more thing I meant to mention during the sidewalk discussion is a sidewalk amendment. Been a lot of talk about having all new subdivisions build curb and gutter and sidewalks and basically, what we need to do as far as amending the ordinance is the Planning Board would hear that first. Then the town council hear it and amend it like that with the normal advertising and public hearings in between. So there are parts of the County’s Unified Development Ordinance that address sidewalks but they’ve been approved by Kernersville and Lewisville ---- they have not been approved by us. It may be that that language is adequate and we don’t have to do a thing other than just write it down, approve it, and tell them to add our names. But there’s all kinds of other ordinances that you can get off the internet or just call any municipality but some good ones are Chapel Hill, Cary. Probably something that the Planning Board will work on a couple meetings and maybe get something going."

Mr. Warner: "I believe at earlier meetings we discussed this and you were going to do some research and come back to us on this. I think our council also had a comment or two. We’d appreciate whatever they can do because I think now that we’re on the threshold of even more. If we had done this back some years ago then we’d be set for development now. What’s that old saying, ‘When the horse is out of the barn, there’s no need to close the door’."

Ms. Duggins: "They bought the property last year and the availability of the amount of acreage they needed were limited on that. They needed at least 40 acres and above."

Mayor: "One of the things that we’ve listened to is a number of citizens have said ‘We want a high school in Walkertown!’ We’ve had a lot of our citizens come to us and said we need to work toward getting a high school because they feel like their children, who they grow up here, they want them to go to school here. And that’s one of the things we’re listening to – the voice of the people – and many people have said that we need a high school here in Walkertown. That they want to see their children, rather than sent off to another school, whether it be to East or in town, or wherever, they want to see them go to school here in Walkertown. So that’s one of my strongest concerns is listening to the people and what the people has had to say."

Ms. Duggins: "Another one is the fact that with sewer and the growth and new homes coming in to Walkertown, all the schools are over-crowded and it’s a good time for Walkertown to have a high school. We have the largest elementary school in Forsyth County."

Mayor: "I think it’s a sense of pride for our community to have our own high school also."

Ms. Welch: "I’d like to add that East Forsyth has 1800 students this year."

Mr. Carroll (Public Session Speaker): "I know. I guess that’s what scares me – is that many students driving up and down Sullivantown Road."

Ms. Welch: "Well, I guess so."

Ms. Duggins: "I’m afraid they’re going to be driving somewhere ----- either way."

Mr. Carroll: "We usually pull about two of them out of our hayfield every year or where they’ve crashed through the fence into where the horses are so………."

Ms. Duggins: "……….That has ---- thinking back to when I was a teenager, that curve – that tree, has been hit several times ---- in your yard."

Arlyn Wilson: "I think, too, that this would be a smaller high school than 1800 ….."

Ms. Duggins: "…….Aren’t they saying 700 to 900?"

Ms. Wilson: "Yes. And educators are finally getting wise that the small high schools turn out

better students than the larger high schools."

Mayor: "In addressing Mr. Carroll’s concerns, or questions, rather, if you’ll look at what we’re talking about tonight --- he mentioned traffic --- what we’re wanting to see tonight is a walking community. If we could get back to having less travel – I don’t think that’s going to happen overnight – but we can, hopefully, between the Land Use and Planning Board and the council, we can all see Walkertown become a community where we don’t have to drive everywhere we go. It would be nice to where we could walk somewhere. So, who knows? In the future we could see that as a reality. We’re going to depend on this Land Use and the Planning Board to formulate, and hopefully, you’ll be giving your input to them before that. Anyone else wishing to speak in Public Session?"

Public Session was closed at 8:13 p.m.

each month at 3:00 p.m. beginning January 20, 2004, at the Library.

PLANNING BOARD Work Session meetings are held at 4:00 p.m. the Monday before

the Planning Board regular meeting and are at Town Hall.